What's Really Unique About Serbia? Top-Rated YouTube Video is Clueless. Top 10 List + Your Suggestions?

Rosemary Bailey Brown RSS / 25.09.2007. u 14:43

On Sunday night, a couple of local friends stopped by our little house in Sombor, Serbia with their 13 year old daughter.   After half an hour of polite attention, she began to slump in her chair, bored, bored, bored with all the grownups chatter.  "Rosemary, I bet she would like to play on the Internet.  Show her your computer," my husband ordered.  Armed with a plateful of chocolate cookies, I led her into my home office to go online.  

She honestly had no idea what to do online (something unimaginable in a 13 year old US girl but typical of her peers here I've found).  So I showed her B92, Belgrade 2.0 and Krstarica which are about the only Serb language sites I know.  After 20 minutes or so she came out and listlessly joined us again.  The Internet, it appears, was awfully boring for a fashionable Serb 13 year old.  

Challenged, I got up again and this time went straight to YouTube and typed "Serbia" into the search box.  Surely there had to be something of interest.  Well, there really isn't alot unless you dig awfully deep.  The vast majority of results were either about Eurovision, sports, or Balkan wars.  Blah.

Here, in fact, is one of the very, very few videos that showed up under the general keyword "serbia" that was  anything the Serbian tourist  board might be happy about:

Since it was posted in November 2006, the video's been viewed more than 44,000 times, given a four-star rating by viewers, and gotten rave reviews online.  However, both my 13 year old friend and I were deeply disappointed by it.

We both felt it missed the point of what is worthwhile, and even remotely unique about Serbia.  A whole bunch of photos of mainly buildings is not unique.  It's not branding.  It's not special.  Every country has lots of buildings, some of them old, some of them lovely.  And most countries have some bits of water and greenery.  Big Deal.

I don't want to knock the maker of the video too harshly because he or she at least tried to create a positive video and hey, it's pretty popular.  I've never posted a video to YouTube so who am I to critique anyway?  

However, the whole situation made me realize yet again how little knowledge or perhaps appreciation Serbs have for what is special and unique about their country. So, here is my proposal -- I would like to start a list of things that are unique and special about Serbia here.  Most of you readers know far more than I do on this subject, so your contributions would be very much appreciated.  To start things off, here's my top 10 which you may find stupid, but at least it's honest (in no particular order):

1. Turbofolk - this is first because my 13 year old friend said it should be and she was very passionate on the subject (much to her parents' amused horror.)

2. Socializing - it's nearly impossible to be lonely here the way most Americans are lonely.

3. Vojvodina earth - possibly the best farm land in Europe.  Incredible sod for gardening.  Rich, brown, and oh so very deep.

4. Posture - Incredible, I have never seen so many men, women and children alike with near-perfect posture walking around anywhere in my life.  Posture may sound like a silly thing to praise, but a beautiful girl can turn instantly ugly if she has bad posture.

5.  Chess & mathematics - Serbs have unusually clever minds for this type of thinking, including computer programming.

6. Natural spas - I've been told there are more natural hot water spas in Serbia than anywhere else in Europe.

7. Orthodox monasteries - the art, the architecture, the perfect placement within the landscape.  These monks are/were artists.

8. Party On Belgrade! - serious people (and anyone over 25) may bemoan this image, but Belgrade is fast becoming second only to old New Orleans in party image.   

9. Jelen Pivo - I know it's the old fart's beer, but I like it, I really like it.  If that makes me an old fart then so be it.

10. Tomatoes - Anyone who is serious about tomato eating will agree with me.  Serb tomatoes beat Croatian tomatoes massively, completely, dramatically, hands down.

Ok that's my top 10 ... what are yours? 



Komentari (104)

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skyspoter skyspoter 14:52 25.09.2007

the most unique thing about Serbia

are the wars.

this is our only export - and I must admit - very successful.
DUNADAN DUNADAN 15:05 25.09.2007

Re: the most unique thing about Serbia

you're so full of shit.
Srđan Kusovac Srđan Kusovac 16:02 25.09.2007

Re: the most unique thing about Serbia

A kissogram is a message delivered via a kiss. Usually arranged as a fun surprise for a person for a special occasion, celebration, specific day, etc. Message deliverers can be hired either by themselves, or as part of an agency. The deliverer also usually wears fancy clothing.
(Wikipedia)

skyspoter skyspoter 16:26 25.09.2007

Re: the most unique thing about Serbia

hahahaha

very good!

the spectator ruls!
Urosh Urosh 16:32 25.09.2007

Re: the most unique thing about Serbia

The most unique things about Serbia are plum brandy (sliwowitz), Guca (unfortunately) and Leskovac kebab.
And there things are the ones that should be developed and emphasized by Serbia in its Euro-Atlantic integration, because the unity od differences is what EU is based on.
I may not like the things I have just pointed out, but it is the fact that people from EU will not drink Cassis de Dijon or Bailey's but Shliwowitz and they will not eat French or Italian dishes, but they will go to Srpska kafana or Chobanov odmor or Duff to eat genuine Serbian dish.
Considering socilizing-I would like to say that people in Serbia socialize too much, but work less than they should.

tnosugar tnosugar 09:01 26.09.2007

a NATOgram

Modesty Blaise Modesty Blaise 15:05 25.09.2007

.

We both felt it missed the point of what is worthwhile, and even remotely unique about Serbia. A whole bunch of photos of mainly buildings is not unique. It's not branding. It's not special. Every country has lots of buildings, some of them old, some of them lovely. And most countries have some bits of water and greenery. Big Deal.


try this one:


dunjica dunjica 15:15 25.09.2007

Tomatoes

Serb tomatoes beat Croatian tomatoes massively, completely, dramatically, hands down.


Only Croat?!! Have you ever eaten e.g. Dutch tomatoes? There is even a joke about it:

Which are the FOUR states of water aggregation?
ice
fluid
gaseous state
AND
Dutch tomatoes
jankovicf jankovicf 15:42 25.09.2007

Re: Tomatoes

dunjica
Serb tomatoes beat Croatian tomatoes massively, completely, dramatically, hands down.


Only Croat?!! Have you ever eaten e.g. Dutch tomatoes? There is even a joke about it:

Which are the FOUR states of water aggregation?
ice
fluid
gaseous state
AND
Dutch tomatoes


I know! I've been to Holland and tried their vegetables and they're disgusting! especially tomatoes!

I guess the standard makes it easier to survive the bad potatoes...
jankovicf jankovicf 15:43 25.09.2007

Re: Tomatoes

not potatoes tomatoes.
Sorry
dunjica dunjica 16:30 25.09.2007

Re: Tomatoes

not potatoes tomatoes.
Sorry


Don´t worry, they taste about the same ;-))
Virtuelni Vasilije Virtuelni Vasilije 16:38 25.09.2007

Re: Tomatoes

Dunjica
Only Croat?!!


Rosemary, it is not important for us to have good tomatoes at all - they could be second worst in the whole world.

Only important thing for us is to beat Croatian tomatoes!!! :))))))))
dunjica dunjica 16:41 25.09.2007

Re: Tomatoes

Heeeey, VV, that´s the point! (But only Croats could recognise it between the lines ;-)))
Virtuelni Vasilije Virtuelni Vasilije 16:52 25.09.2007

Re: Tomatoes

hehe that is the reason we are brothers and sisters - we understand each other

ps. ok, Croatian quinces (dunjica) beat ours ...
dunjica dunjica 17:00 25.09.2007

Re: Tomatoes

VV, therefore

for you (skipping quince brandy for good purpose).
oldtajmer oldtajmer 15:25 25.09.2007

Youtube

If you were looking for something fun on the net for a 13-yr old American girl, would you type in "USA" or "America" into youtube? And how many fun things do you think would pop up?

Try "Ceca" next time ;-)

...or ask her what music she likes! Seriously, do you have any kids?? What 13-yr old you know is interested in tourist bureau videos?

I think this is more of a Kid-Adult blog than a Serbian-American blog.

Love your writing style, tho :)

Take care!
oldtajmer oldtajmer 15:29 25.09.2007

Re: 2%

Oh, and one more thing - I am not sure where you got your 2% number (previous blog), but I think since the wars of the 90's many more than that have heard of Serbia. In fact, having the experience of living in the States in the 80's, 90's and 2000's I can tell you that in the 80's the "where are you from?" question was usually followed by a blank stare, whereas in this century I hardly ever hear "oh, must be very cold there!" (Siberia) anymore :)
Rosemary Bailey Brown Rosemary Bailey Brown 15:42 25.09.2007

Re: Youtube

"Ceca" was indeed the very next search we tried and then she was awfully happy! I just started with "Serbia" to see what in general was out there... and then we moved on to what was evidently the good stuff.
Jelena Pavlović Jelena Pavlović 16:53 25.09.2007

Re:Youtube

There is still a huge difference between the city and rural population. It seems to me that the 13 year old you had been visited by had deep roots in the one of the villages surrounded by the big plain of Vojvodina.
oldtajmer oldtajmer 19:23 25.09.2007

Re: Re:Youtube

Even among the urban youth (dare I say "elite", youtube is not as popular since still not enough kids have access to high-speed internet.
Unfuckable Unfuckable 23:29 25.09.2007

Re: 2%

Oh, and one more thing


...just type "moron" in Google : ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
silicuda silicuda 10:23 26.09.2007

re

Lun Lun 15:30 25.09.2007

Something really unique

deki_swe deki_swe 20:21 27.09.2007

Re: Something really unique

Kakve fotke...svaka čast!
Mark Pullen Mark Pullen 15:42 25.09.2007

Top Ten

This is more of a Belgrade top-ten than a Serbian one, al' 'ajde.

1. Fastfood -- the best burgers on the planet.

2. Bums -- the best shaped rears on the planet.

3. Bands -- from EKV to Partibrejkers to Mistake-Mistake: eclectic, original, undiscovered.

4. Šljivovica -- it's a drink, it's a body rub, it's fuel.

5. Clubs -- from World Travellers to Šipražija to Plastik to Stefan Braun, Belgrade has a club to suit everyone's taste.

6. Restaurants -- my parents recently commented that they'd never had a bad meal when visiting Belgrade.

7. Hills -- Belgrade has more hills than Rome. Great if your a skateboarder, not so great if your wheelchair-bound.

8. Self confidence -- Serbs don't need to prove anything to anyone because they know they're ultimately capable of everything and, therefore, don't have to waste time proving anything.

9. Diaspora -- an army of Serbian international residents who are more nationalist than your average SRS voter. They'd love to see Serbia conquer the Balkans, but wouldn't dream of leaving their Chicago homes to join in the fighting.

10. Sport -- Serbia has more sporting clubs and sporting prowess than you can shake a stick at.
AlexDunja AlexDunja 16:07 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten


9. Diaspora -- an army of Serbian international residents who are more nationalist than your average SRS voter. They'd love to see Serbia conquer the Balkans, but wouldn't dream of leaving their Chicago homes to join in the fighting.

alal vera!!
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 16:15 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten

AlexDunja

9. Diaspora -- an army of Serbian international residents who are more nationalist than your average SRS voter. They'd love to see Serbia conquer the Balkans, but wouldn't dream of leaving their Chicago homes to join in the fighting.

alal vera!!

Lepo ja kazem najbolje se Srbi bore...
dunjica dunjica 16:17 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten

9. Diaspora -- an army of Serbian international residents who are more nationalist than your average SRS voter. They'd love to see Serbia conquer the Balkans, but wouldn't dream of leaving their Chicago homes to join in the fighting.


Hahahaha, you got the point!
Jelena Pavlović Jelena Pavlović 17:09 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten

This you call "fast food" is actually taking time to be prepared.
As of beautiful asses, did they have the price? Also the asses are in the advertisings of the best things about Serbia and Belgrade, beside the food.
And Diaspora, the sore point in our lives. It is a little different with the nationalists living abroad; the hard core nationalists are the ones whose pradede came form the old world.
AlexDunja AlexDunja 19:22 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten

adam weisphaut
AlexDunja

9. Diaspora -- an army of Serbian international residents who are more nationalist than your average SRS voter. They'd love to see Serbia conquer the Balkans, but wouldn't dream of leaving their Chicago homes to join in the fighting.

alal vera!!

Lepo ja kazem najbolje se Srbi bore...

cuti adame
dobro je dok se ameri ne dosete
Jelena Pavlović Jelena Pavlović 19:37 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten

A sta ako smo se dosetili?:))
DUNADAN DUNADAN 19:38 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten

Lepo ja kazem najbolje se Srbi bore...


ti kazesh?

AlexDunja AlexDunja 19:42 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten

Jelena Pavlović
A sta ako smo se dosetili?:))

gospodzo,jelena, sorry
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 19:47 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten

DUNADAN
Lepo ja kazem najbolje se Srbi bore...


ti kazesh?


Sorry
Lepo ja citiram Duandan
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 19:56 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten

Jelena Pavlović
A sta ako smo se dosetili?:))

Onda
let's dance
Rosemary Bailey Brown Rosemary Bailey Brown 20:29 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten

Fantastic list - well done!
Jelena Pavlović Jelena Pavlović 23:04 25.09.2007

Re: Top Ten

:)))))
DejanOz DejanOz 15:43 25.09.2007

I don't want to be mean...

1. Turbofolk
Oh, please. It's not also called turbefolk for nothing (turbe=Turkish word for 'tomb'). In place of that I would like to see the New Wave scene from the early 1980s (the second best in Europe, according to the New Musical Express). Well 1/3-rd of it (the other 2/3-rds going to Zagreb and Ljubljana).

2. Socializing
Yeah, right. Maybe if you're an American in Belgrade, then yes, You're a superstar, by the virtue of the fact you're speaking English with that accent we've all been conditioned to associate with all good things in life (it's called Hollywoodization, I think). Specifically Belgraders can be quite lonely, just as is the case in any other big city. Some elders die, and are only found out weeks later.

3. Vojvodina earth
It's exactly the same as the one across the borders in Hungary and Romania. It's rich, though.

4. Posture
I haven't really noticed that.

5. Chess & mathematics
"Unusally clever minds"... I don't remember many Serbs winning the World Chess Championships, then again I know nothing about chess (it's even worse with maths).

6. Natural spas
That may be, I guess if I retire in Serbia some day I may tell you more.

7. Orthodox monasteries
OK

8. Party On Belgrade!
I'm too old to care.

9. Jelen Pivo
That's not bad, especially for the price.

10. Tomatoes
It's not the tomatoes, it's the people who grow them... who's backs are crooked by the time they are 40. Dutch tomatoes may be airy, but nobody has to squat over them and talk to them nicely in order to get them to grow.
Srki Srki 15:45 25.09.2007

couple of more


...
n: Improvisation, almost everywhere and in everything, mainly to save some money, sometimes to show-off (this is probably not unique itself, but pushing the envelope I think is unique).

n+1: "I know the best" spirit (with most often poor results). This is not quite orthogonal with previous. We honestly deeply believe that we are better, smarter (or at least more cunning) and bolder then anybody else in the world - you should have seen me few nights ago screwing up parking lot signs after concert in my neighborhood, in front of very surprised parking service dudes, to get to highway quicker).

n+2: mooching. Or it's just me? ;-). When I go spelunking, almost everybody I caved with here in US learned to carry some extra food (and beer) for me .
...


gogo gogo 15:48 25.09.2007

two for now :>

kosančićev venac (a little bit of localpatriotism, what can i do.. :>>: google images
đavolja varoš: photos and world heritage
injoy! :>
Urosh Urosh 22:16 25.09.2007

Re: two for now :>

gogo
kosančićev venac

:)
Dejan Bizinger Dejan Bizinger 15:58 25.09.2007

Unique about Serbia

I agree about Vojvodina, however because of some political reasons Vojvodina can not develop even more.

I think that Hungary has more spas than Serbia and Finland. Hungary also doesn't have sea, but it is well known for spas.

Unique about Serbia is also a characteristic called "inat" I don't know the English word.

That "inat" is also very responsible for success of Serbian sport in different categories. Such a small country, so much success in sport.

Unique is also rakija/sljivovica (althought some other country filled the patent), burek, kajmak, maline...

BTW. About catchups, I also like it very much, but lately I use Mr. Heinz.
Jukie Jukie 16:04 25.09.2007

Re: Unique about Serbia

Dejan Bizinger
Unique about Serbia is also a characteristic called "inat" I don't know the English word.That "inat" is also very responsible for success of Serbian sport in different categories.
It is called "spite" or "lack of reason" or I guess also "pigheadedness" (although I am not sure if the last one is precisely that)
dunjica dunjica 16:24 25.09.2007

Re: Unique about Serbia

but lately I use Mr. Heinz.


It is MRS Teresa Heinz Kerry at the time, the spouse of the former presidental candidate John Kerry (dem. party).



;-)))
Urosh Urosh 16:40 25.09.2007

Re: Unique about Serbia

Dejan Unique about Serbia is also a characteristic called "inat" I don't know the English word.That "inat" is also very responsible for success of Serbian sport in different categories. Such a small country, so much success in sport.Unique is also rakija/sljivovica (althought some other country filled the patent), burek, kajmak, maline...BTW. About catchups, I also like it very much, but lately I use Mr. Heinz.[/quote



1.Considering spite-I think that Ms.Bailey Brown wanted good things in Serbia to be emphasized, not negative and primitive.
2.Considering sports-Sport players became national heroes, instead of being professionals.
It is not a difference, it is idiotism.
3.Schliwowitz is a quite good merchandise, that should be emphasized and sold to the foreigners.
Jelena Pavlović Jelena Pavlović 17:12 25.09.2007

Re: Unique about Serbia

inat-spite, out of spite
Rosemary Bailey Brown Rosemary Bailey Brown 20:32 25.09.2007

Re: Unique about Serbia

Oh you are correct - BUREK alone all by itself is worthy of a top ten. 1. Apple Burek, 2. Cheese Burek, 3. Cherry Burek, etc. etc.
sheridan sheridan 07:50 26.09.2007

Re: Unique about Serbia

Rosemary Bailey Brown
Oh you are correct - BUREK alone all by itself is worthy of a top ten. 1. Apple Burek, 2. Cheese Burek, 3. Cherry Burek, etc. etc.


Shame it's nowhere near unique to Serbia though, so can hardly make it to your list:)
Vladimir B. Vladimir B. 10:27 27.09.2007

Re: Unique about Serbia


Inat is a Turkish word and has entered several other languages, too (e.g. Greek "yinati". It is NOT a Serbian word.

Promoting the "inat" as typically Serbian characteristic only shows lack of education, narrow-mindedness and inclination towards stereotypes, having nothing to do with Serbs indeed. I would rather say Serbs simply try to survive in ubiquituous poverty and under consecutive oppressive regimes and foreign threats. The fact they actually do is what is really amazing about them.

So to me, the unique things in Serbia are its people's humor, frankness and vigor that survive under every possible circumstances, and make the places liveable--among cruel state officers, mafia and patriarchal stubborness.
Jukie Jukie 16:02 25.09.2007

well,

Rosemary wrote:
>1. Turbofolk - this is first because my 13 year old friend said it should be
>and she was very passionate on the subject (much to her parents' amused horror.)

Well, she would stop being my friend then and there, and would have to prove herself worthwhile by making a complete U-turn...
blue rider blue rider 16:16 25.09.2007

What the f.. ?

I mean, guys and girls, Serbs, you are totally missing the point here. What Rose here wanted to say is that Serbians actually have no real touch with inner self, have no real clue about Serbian values and our culture and so on and so fort. So what do we have to say to the world? To explain, promote our country and ourselves?
And you blogers (I am ashamed) prove her point exactly. From stupid comments about wars, to even more stupid analysis whether Serbia has more or less spa's the Finland or Hungary!
The fact is, and Rose is saying it, WE DON'T KNOW HO WE ARE!
And most of us are a bunch of bitter fucks.
DejanOz DejanOz 16:32 25.09.2007

Re: What the f.. ?

blue rider
And most of us are a bunch of bitter fucks.

Speak for yourself, mate.

And take it easy. Have some tomatoes.
dunjica dunjica 16:44 25.09.2007

Re: What the f.. ?

And take it easy. Have some tomatoes.

Hahahahahaha...!

bobo bobo 16:55 25.09.2007

1st place

What would promote Serbia more than anything else is the absence of sense of guilt.
Wouldn't everyone want that?
Urosh Urosh 17:02 25.09.2007

Re: 1st place

bobo
What would promote Serbia more than anything else is the absence of sense of guilt.Wouldn't everyone want that?

Firstly, it shouldn't be the sense of guilt, but the sense of moral and political responsability.
The guilty ones are the criminals, i.d.the ones who committed the crimes.
We, as the citizens, cannot be guilty, but only politically and morally responsable.
But not to the West, but to the victims.
Secondly, the war, crimes, aggressions and appartheid should be separated from what Europeans and other foreingners expect to see and feel in Serbia, which is, at the same time, unique.


DejanOz DejanOz 17:07 25.09.2007

Re: 1st place

Urosh
...unique.

Tell me, Urke, how do you feel today about the friendly people of Burma taking to the streets in democratic protests!! Doesn't it just warm the old ticker? Almost like in Kazakhstan!

Cheers
Indy :)
bobo bobo 17:15 25.09.2007

Re: 1st place

Urosh
bobo
What would promote Serbia more than anything else is the absence of sense of guilt.Wouldn't everyone want that?

Firstly, it shouldn't be the sense of guilt, but the sense of moral and political responsability.
The guilty ones are the criminals, i.d.the ones who committed the crimes.
We, as the citizens, cannot be guilty, but only politically and morally responsable.
But not to the West, but to the victims.

I am NOT talking about politics, it's more on a personal level...
You get "screwed" everywhere you go and it's ok, also you can "screw" anyone and it's ok...
To make it more understandable for Americans ...it's something like Brooklyn attitude...you never know what to expect and everyone's used to it by now.
Urosh Urosh 19:17 25.09.2007

Re: 1st place

DejanOz

Urosh...unique.Tell me, Urke, how do you feel today about the friendly people of Burma taking to the streets in democratic protests!! Doesn't it just warm the old ticker? Almost like in Kazakhstan!CheersIndy :)

My dear friend, protests in Burma, which I support, have nothing to do with the present topic.

Urosh Urosh 19:22 25.09.2007

Re: 1st place

bobo

Urosh

boboWhat would promote Serbia more than anything else is the absence of sense of guilt.Wouldn't everyone want that?Firstly, it shouldn't be the sense of guilt, but the sense of moral and political responsability.The guilty ones are the criminals, i.d.the ones who committed the crimes.We, as the citizens, cannot be guilty, but only politically and morally responsable.But not to the West, but to the victims. I am NOT talking about politics, it's more on a personal level...You get "screwed" everywhere you go and it's ok, also you can "screw" anyone and it's ok...To make it more understandable for Americans ...it's something like Brooklyn attitude...you never know what to expect and everyone's used to it by now.

That is policy, too.
Because it is connected to the picture, being sent by us, citizens of Serbia.
Vladimir B. Vladimir B. 10:30 27.09.2007

Re: 1st place

bobo
What would promote Serbia more than anything else is the absence of sense of guilt.
Wouldn't everyone want that?

Oh, yes.
urbanosaurus urbanosaurus 17:41 25.09.2007

YouTube Video is Clueless.

searh option isnt enough...
u need deeeeep search... :)))

tags : inat, budale, magarci, mali radojica, kraljevic marko, burek, rakija, kafana, rostilj, prasetina, balkanski spijun...

and some YTclips 4 u... :)))







Hromi Daba Hromi Daba 20:20 25.09.2007

a personal observation

"However, the whole situation made me realize yet again how little knowledge or perhaps appreciation Serbs have for what is special and unique about their country. "

So very true. I think that the source of the attitude is rooted deep in the Serbian mythology. It is kind of self-preserving mechanism conditioned by the personal and collective history - things are always bad even if they are not, so when you lose them (and you will, it is just matter of time) you won't suffer as much. So, as a result, your question "what do you like about Serbia" gets answered with 100 impressions of what is bad about it.

Part of the problem is that what you call Serbia doesn't have the same meaning for every inhabitant of the place. For some, Serbia doesn't include their street, town, family, friends... It is something else - a mystical place run by orthodox priests where wars never stop, and every small thing that makes life worth leaving is insignificant compared to History, Duty and Judgment. Whatever they hate about it goes into a compartment marked "Serbia"; people and places they love goes into one marked "not Serbia",

I won't make a list; i haven't visited there for some time now. I will share with you just one small personal observation. There is something in the air of the Balkans, the way how trees hit the sky on the horizon, unique shade of a color that persists in everything - in grass, in soil, on people's faces, and cannot be seen if you live there. I was watching an english speaking movie a few months back, a camera was panning through a field in the middle of nowhere. Something in the composition of the scene made me feel warm inside, like i'd lived there in some other life. It turned out that the movie had been filmed in Croatia. I haven't experienced that sense of recognition ever before or after – an impression not very useful for positively branding Serbia, i am afraid, but the one that tells me how beauty and uniqueness are everywhere, Serbia included - you just have to look for it.
Rosemary Bailey Brown Rosemary Bailey Brown 20:36 25.09.2007

Re: a personal observation

Hromi, you are a poet.
DejanOz DejanOz 00:35 26.09.2007

Re: a personal observation

Serbia doesn't include their street, town, family, friends... It is something else - a mystical place run by orthodox priests where wars never stop, and every small thing that makes life worth leaving is insignificant compared to History, Duty and Judgment.

Hromi, I don't know if this is the case of a Freudian slip, or something else. But, indeed, some of the things you mentioned in the above example make life (or at least Serbia) worth leaving.

The last paragraph you've written is really awesome, I think that the promoters of the booming Croatian tourism would be foolish not to use that somewhere. ;-) (Just kidding, it really is nice).
Hromi Daba Hromi Daba 15:25 26.09.2007

Re: a personal observation

"Hromi, you are a poet"

Thanks Rosemary.

"Hromi, I don't know if this is the case of a Freudian slip, or something else"

lol ... i was asking myself the same question.
Mungos Mungos 20:27 25.09.2007

Who knows how to "read"...

... pictures, this photo would tell him/her all about Serbia.


Photo by: Chuburko

Mongoose, The Proud

P.S. Mrs. Brown, I am very thankful for your nice opinion of Serbia and your efforts for its promotion
ivana23 ivana23 20:42 25.09.2007

Belgrade, Serbia

patriot patriot 00:19 26.09.2007

Spite means "prkos"

"Inat" is untranslatable. I found a god definition of "inat" in some book i read, i believe it was from French author. Unfortunately I cant remember his exact definition, it was something like: intention to act even on your own damage regardless of consensuses and without any pragmatical reason.

Ten most unique things about Serbia?

1. History. (rich and tragic, glorious and dark, interesting in any case)

2. People. (recently I had some guests from Zagreb, Croatia. They were surprised to find quite the opposite welcome from what they were expecting.) ( I am talking about ordinary people from the streets, cafes, Inn's et cetera.)

3. Monastery's. ( Largest orthodox church on the world St. Sava Temple, numerous unique medieval churches and monastery's in serbian-byzantine stile and beautiful view from them. ( They are almost always on top of some hill.))

4. Plum brandy. Sljivovica. A ni loza nije losa.

5. Guca trumpet festival. (the best felling in the whole while world is when your liver dances in the rithm of "Goc" (the big base drum))

6. Food!!!! My Croatian friends were thrilled about: Gibanica, Sarmice u vinovom listu, Karadjordjeva snicla, Mesano meso, Leskovacka muckalica, Leskovacki mac, Leskovacki voz, Cevapi na kajmaku, Sumadijska salata (albancici), Sopska, Gurmanska pljeskavica, Punjeni cevap, slatko od sljiva, slatko od sumskih jagoda, slatko od breskvi.....

7. Aldo there are plenty more,
8.these are the 6 most
9.unique things about
10.S R B I J A

vucko vucko 00:25 26.09.2007

Not so turbo... folk

Rosemary, I don't know if you had opportunity to listen to any Serbian (and regional) folk music that existed before a shiny new turbo engine was fited in?

For example popular dances like: Kokonješte or Bojerka or Moravac or Cacak...

You may like to own a 3x CD edition of original recordings of the famous violine player Vlastimir Pavlović Carevac (issued by our national radio/TV broadcasting agency - PGP RTS), playing traditional music from the region (Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia, Montenegro). The package includes a booklet in Serbian/English.

Also, if you live in Sombor, you must have already visited the theatre club - is the local MDs' traditional string orchestra stil active? They were really great back in mid-nineties, when I spent a month or so there doing some work and gaining 8 kilos of weight... u tom Somboru...


Jelena Pavlović Jelena Pavlović 00:54 26.09.2007

Re: Not so turbo... folk

Vucko,
Ovo je divno! Ja volim nasa kola. Strasno je sto su sinonim Srbije postali kojekakvi monstruozni primerci ljudskog roda i njihovi kvazi produkti koji su nam obelezili zadnjih dvadesetak godina. Verujem da Rozmari nije cula ova kola. Hvala Vucko!
Pozdrav!
vucko vucko 00:59 26.09.2007

Re: Not so turbo... folk

Možda je čula arapsko kokonješte - kažu na netu da su ga naši iseljenici doneli u US... vidi ovde (the link may be interesting to you too, Rosemary :) )
Jelena Pavlović Jelena Pavlović 01:23 26.09.2007

Re: Not so turbo... folk

Ja procitah ovo i malo se zacudih. Jel istina?:)))
Mungos Mungos 02:17 26.09.2007

Re: Not so turbo... folk

Jelena Pavlović

Ovo je divno! Ja volim nasa kola.


I ja, Jelena! Ne bih menjao Juga ni za sta!



Mungos, The Jugoljub (Yugokiss)

"Ko nemase Juga, nemase se rasta ni roditi!" (Njegos & Ja)
Domazet Domazet 01:45 26.09.2007

Well, Rosemary...

…there was something missing from all the lists about Serbian specialties presented here and I couldn’t figure what was it. An then, the post of our the Most Distinguished Free Press Presser (I don’t know why, but somehow I feel that in his case the ‘Pusher’ could be more adequate than 'Presser') opened my eyes. You wouldn’t believe, but there are people among us that with their mere presence fully awaken my senses, all of them. Anyhow, his presence reminded me about a something that is if not unique than very special to Serbia. There are people among Serbs (or more politically correct , citizens of Serbia, this might sound a bit silly in English but not in Serbian) that are very I’d rather say unique than special. ‘Special’ might have some unintended connotations. And it is not so easy to explain to the innocent bystanders what exactly is the nature of their specialty, even more so when the attempt is made by people like me that use English as the second language (OK, in my case it could easily be English as the fifth language) and are generally linguistically challenged (this fits my case perfectly, no need for further explanation). So, if you don’t mind, I’ll tell you a little story in order to better explain.

About twenty years ago I spent a couple of years in Japan and had a chance to get acquainted to lots of different people (very few Japanese though). And among them with a group of young Americans that came to Japan on the wings of their curiosity and found themselves with few, if any, skills needed for the survival in that, let me say, very strange country (and beautiful, oh so very beautiful, but that is different story that I will be more than glad to share with you, on some other occasion and your time permitting). Now, why was that group so very special? Well, having absolutely no other skills, they made living on something that came only natural to them. They got paid for speaking (not really teaching) English.

All right, I hope you liked this little story of mine but you must be asking yourself, and rightfully so, what in the world can this story have in common with some unique (let’s again use ‘unique’ and not ‘special’) group of Serbian citizens? Well, there is a connection. This unique group of the people, due to the absolute lack of any skills (although some of them have ‘skills’ in abundance), have also to make their living on what comes natural to them. And here we come to the real nature of their uniqueness. They, for the reasons that are well understood, can not make the living by speaking (or writing, for that matter) English. They, for the reasons not so readily understood, can not make the living by speaking (or writing) Serbian either. So, what do they do, how do they make living (again, I kinda hear you yelling ‘Tell me old man, I don’t have a whole week to listen to your musings…’)? Well, they also sell what comes natural to them and what they have in abundance. They sell the Hatred. And not any hatred, being deprived of skills they still have their ‘skills’, they sell politically correct hatred. This is something that I, after my modest wanderings, believe is unique to Serbia.

And, believe me, I would probably fail to notice that if not for the presence of our the Most Distinguished Free Press Presser. His presence is very inspirational to me. Reminds me, time and again, how unique human creatures can be.

PS My musings in English are much easier to digest if you spill couple of teaspoons of ‘a’s and ‘the’s on them. Please be my guest.
vucko vucko 09:16 26.09.2007

Re: Well, Rosemary...

Well you're not so bad, even as a volunteer/amateur, I reckon... :)
Covek u belom Covek u belom 12:05 26.09.2007

Re: Well, Rosemary...

Domi, you even inspired Jelena the Blondy, only she wouldn't ever admit it. The topic is a bit different but the title is exactly the same. You should have made copyrights on it. :)))
If I think it better, she substantially got inspired by The Great Journalist who she also "adores". What an irony.
Željka Buturović Željka Buturović 16:23 26.09.2007

Re: Well, Rosemary...

They sell the Hatred. And not any hatred, being deprived of skills they still have their ‘skills’, they sell politically correct hatred. This is something that I, after my modest wanderings, believe is unique to Serbia.

there is nothing unique about it. an analogous phenomenon is well-documented in the US and i am pretty sure it exists in every country.
Domazet Domazet 01:46 27.09.2007

I know that this will come as a shock...

Željka Buturović
there is nothing unique about it. an analogous phenomenon is well-documented in the US and i am pretty sure it exists in every country.

...to you but I did not read Sowell’s book. So, it would be nice if you could introduce us with whatever it is that you see as a well documented analogy between two (unique?) groups. Until then I will speculate that you might have in mind something like this:
Sowell explains the answer in this wonderful book. The reason, he says, is that the real motives of liberals have nothing to do with the welfare of other people. Instead, they have two related goals: first, to establish themselves as morally and intellectually superior to the rather distasteful population of common people, and second, to gather as much power as possible to tell those distasteful common people how they must live their lives. If a policy moves them closer to those two goals, they will find a reason to advocate it, regardless of how harmful the consequences of that policy may be.

This is an excerpt from one of the customer reviews that I found at Amazon.com. Ok, on the first glance whoever wrote it seems to be describing quite a number of the members of in-crowd here at Blog. But that is it. First, not all of the liberals are like this, I accept that there are many of them but not the majority. Second, not all the people like this are liberals. You have similar type of obnoxious bastards that feel superior to rather distasteful population of the cheap ticket holders both on conservative and libertarian side. The difference is only (OK, mostly) in semantics. The Superiors on the liberal side approach these less fortunate with: ‘Poor souls let us help you and teach you while you are taking care of our gardening’. The line of the conservatives goes pretty much like: ‘Fu@king bastards, drop dead but not before we take another strip of your skin for our slippers’. Libertarians (not all of them, I’m talking about similar mental pattern) do not even have the line. Or, at least, not the intelligible one. So, if you want to tell me that in all human societies you have the Snake Oil Salespeople (my daughter is at the dance class so I have nobody to ask for more updated term) I will readily agree with you. But that is it. I mean that is what they have in common.

Now, what (in my opinion) differs them. First of all, the local In-crowd did not develop even the skin deep loyalty to liberal ideas that they are claiming as theirs. Let me give one comparative example. During Monica Lewinski (I hope I spelled her last name correctly) scandal I was surprised how many people that I knew as outspoken liberals were ready to look aside and pretend not to see that it was an archetypical abuse of the clueless girl (regardless of how willing she was plus I admit that the ‘clueless’ is not the best possible choice of the words) by the alpha male. But none of them thought that she deserved it. They looked aside because of the 'greater cause'. They were hypocritical but not barbaric. On the other side, what do you think, how many of the members of the local In-crowd think even now that Milo and his smuggling brothers just got little bit naughty while ‘the Moldavian bitch got what she deserved’. What do you think, how does The Journalist look at that unfortunate woman? I don’t think that in the case of Serbian ‘Liberals’ we can talk about hypocrisy. The barbarism is the entirely different story.

Second, however greedy are the members of the political elite in the US, they still have enough common sense to understand that survival instinct stands above their greed. There is not a single member of a US political caste that would be stupid enough to found his/her political platform exclusively on what is perceived as disastrous for US by the majority of the population. Look at our In-crowd and their political representatives. Completely helpless, they equate hated Administration with the country in which they live and they start hating the country as much as they hate the Administration. BTW, this projection of hatred is, in my opinion, the main ingredient of the uniqueness that I was talking about.
.
Third, the lack of the understanding of how to build public image, the lack of the understanding that has such grandiose proportions that indicates the complete disregard for Public opinion. Look at Vesna Pesic, nobody can deny her intellect, she must understand that the size of Liljana Smajlovic boobs should be completely unrelated to the political platform of the (LDP)Coalition. Have you ever heard her to say something against chronic mental diarrhea of unfulfilled clowns like The Journalist or equally unfulfilled (although much sharper) Pera the Walking Trashcan© Lukovic? If B92 is the only media outlet open really open to Coalition she should have an idea of what is going on and what new standards of free speech are being established by the paragons of the Democracy. Some of them are sitting with her in various political boards.

Fourth, ...you know what, I would really like to learn more about the similarities that you are talking about but we (OK, I) have to show the minimum consideration towards the hostess of the thread. As far as I know, you can start the threads on your own, why don’t you start one with this or similar topics. I’ll be more than willing to defend my thesis that the Liberal Idea was hijacked in Serbia by truly unique mixture of hypocrites, mediocre characters that have way above the average ambitions, preachers of balkanized version of Machiavellianism and above all the supreme disciples of so very serBian self-destructive Inat. Hopefully, in a bit more organized manner…
David Icke David Icke 01:54 27.09.2007

Re: Well, Rosemary...

Domazet
…his presence reminded me about a something that is if not unique than very special to Serbia. They sell the Hatred... politically correct hatred.


Why am I not surprised that your English is a joke? Oh, I know, because it's only your, what, 18th year of living in USofA. Or maybe I am not surprised cause I know how deep is your hatred of the country you're living in? One way or the other, your language situation will get better. Either with time or with your return to beloved Serbia. Or is it Montenegro?

Anyhow, your English proficiency is not why am I here.

The reason I am here is MY hatred. My politically correct hatred. Which is probably the same hatred Mr Kusovac, the distinguished free presser you are sooo humorously referring to, deeply feels, too, including few Biljanas, few Vesnas and couple of Svetlanas, as well. And, lets hope, including the remaining decent citizens of Serbia.
Yes, we all feel the deepest hatred - hatred of crimes. That hatred of crimes is the demarcation line dividing two Serbias today. That hatred is what's distinguishing the decent people from the decaying lot.

I see your blues, Domazet. Its called; so many empty words, so little time. Next time,concentrate only on sound bites.
Domazet Domazet 02:16 27.09.2007

Tebe i Biljana...

David Icke

Why am I not surprised that your English is a joke? Oh, I know, because it's only your, what, 18th year of living in USofA. Or maybe I am not surprised cause I know how deep is your hatred of the country you're living in?...


trista miliona.

Fourth, any critic of the opponents that may start as the credible one (my way less than perfect English) ends up in a completely insane combination of their ideological patterns (my hatred towards US).
DejanOz DejanOz 02:52 30.09.2007

1+1=3

Mr. Icke
That hatred of crimes is the demarcation line dividing two Serbias today.


Bugger! It was there all along, staring us right in the face! Are we all blind, or what?!

The absolute uniqueness of Serbia - and I know of no other such example - is that, according to some distinguished public thinkers, there exists not one, but two Serbias!

Eat your heart out, the land of the free! There might be 50 of you, but united you still stand. The yippiekayay cowboys policing the planet shoulder to shoulder with the gay (as in "merry" people of San Francisco with flowers in their hair.

Not we, the heavenly people - we do not unite what must not be united.
smizibizi smizibizi 03:39 26.09.2007

one average serb guy :)




1.Drama,drama,drama :)
2.Ability to eat enormous amounts of meat(Americans for example make a burger for each person at the table,and in Serbia there would be 3-4 burgers even though nobody will eat them :)) and drink alcohol...
3.Humour-we can make a joke about anything especialy the "bad and sad"situations(One of my best lughs in life was on a funeral of my best friends father-she was laughing with me,and during the bombing)
...
I dont want to think of more because I will be homesick,and I always say that Serbia is like a virus that I have to get out of my sistem everytime I go back...yet it has taste and smell :)
darmar darmar 09:14 26.09.2007

My top 10 about Serbia are:

not necessarily in this order...

1. Divine vocal, state-of -the-art chorus music, both folk-based and sacred, by Stevan Stojanović Mokranjac - for those who do not know what I am talking about, look at the guy on 50 din. banknote (unfortunately, so many people really don't know who he was...) [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevan_Stojanovi%C4%87_Mokranjac][/url]

2. Traditional folk dances and songs performed by many amateur folk dance troupes, as well as the only professional one - the famous National Ensemble "Kolo", who are true cultural ambasadors, spreading our herritage worldwide.

3. Ethno-based contemporary music and performers who do their job just perfectly, arranging our traditional music in more attractive, modern sound.

4. Historical legacy, not talking about medieval art and monasteries only, but about the pre-historic cultures, especially what's considered to be one of the oldest prehistoric civilizations (if not the oldest) found in LEPENSKI VIR, then representative remnants of Roman civilization, found in numerous archeological sites, especially VIMINATIUM and FELIX ROMULIANA.

5. Zlatibor mountain with the famous Sirogojno wool products, with their distinctive patterns and images seen on sweaters especially.

6. Kopaonik mountain with it's ski resort (need to be developed more, though).

7. Spas and health tourism (again, need to be developed more).

8. Country tourism, with gracious hospitality of locals, with natural, home-made-preservative-free food products (so popular among foreigners, yet still undeveloped...)

9. Mokra Gora, Kusturica's ethno-village Mećavnik and famous "Šargan Eight" old-timer train and everything that goes with it!

10. Festivals, CHOIR FESTIVAL IN NEGOTIN, BEMUS, EXIT, GUČA, and many, many others, depends on music taste.
marta l marta l 10:12 26.09.2007

criticality or "ti ce' mi kazes"

welcome Rosemary,

No 1 is critical thinking and healthy disrespect to authority versus gullibility and blind faith.

Due to this who makes it in Serbia can make it anywhere :)

silicuda silicuda 10:36 26.09.2007

just a few

just a few...

-You don't have to be 21+ to buy alchohol, cigarettes and/or go to a club/party!
-Alchohol is very very cheap
-Cigarettes are very cheap
-No such thing as legal age
-The very greasy Burek
-YUGO/ZASTAVA
-Ability to buy lots of fake/pirated merchandise easily (ie: fake nike/adidas/puma, pirated dvds/cds, etc)
-If a cop pulls you over, you can bribe him and he will let you go so you avoid paying the fine! :)
-Beer comes in 2L+ bottles!!!!
-All the restaurants offer the same food everywhere!!! :(



Bob Petrovich Bob Petrovich 19:11 26.09.2007

Random ten


1. A speciffic sense of humor. Feels like location shoot for Larry David, only funnier. Not to mention the slang expressions and curses and swearing being used to express the fondest of affection. (Also home of Yugo, but it was a bad joke)

2. Lepenski Vir and Vinca. Civilisation as we know it started from here.

3. Medieval churches and monasteries. Renaissance before The Renaissance.

4. Serbian spruce (Panciceva omorika). Will grow and grace the backyards anywhere.

5. Kajmak. Can be imitated, never replicated. Don't even try.

6. Sljivovica. Serbian Sljivovica is the original. (Germans, Croatians, Bulgarians also make Slivowitz, but it is "'sencerest act of flattery"

7. Serbian Mastiff (SOP) .


8. Music. Waiting for a musicologist of Ry Cooder caliber to be rediscovered.


9. The only European country bombed by Nazi Germany, Allies and NATO on a Easter Sunday.


10. The Culture, the people and tradition Liberals love to hate with a passion of a biggot.

DejanOz DejanOz 23:58 26.09.2007

Re: Random ten

There is nothing particularly charming about swearing to express affection, especially if it's not consensual. And it often is not. How about raping to express love?
The Fertile Crescent culture was highly developed at around 10,000BC, millennia before Vinca.
I'm a liberal and I don't hate any culture, nation or tradition. That is nonsense. That is pure nationalistic paranoia.
Bob Petrovich Bob Petrovich 01:45 27.09.2007

Re: 10 000 BC

DejanOz,

I do not mind when somebody disagrees with me and use the factually correct arguments
to prove his/her point. That's called exchange of views, we all learn something new.

However, it is odd to find rape analogy in your post, having in mind how Liberal Idol Bill Clinton "loved" Juanita Broaddrick. "Put some ice on it" was the Liberal expression of love after he raped her and cut her lip. Liberal Media covered this up and thus became accessory after the fact.

The non-related insertion of "raping" in an article about what makes Serbia special can be understood as a lame attempt to invoke association to rabid "Serbs are rapists" propaganda theme so dear to Liberals.

People can be raped, but figuratively speaking, the facts can be raped also. I do not like when somebody does it to prove his point, nor I like being lectured by someone who replaces the lack of knowledge with arrogance.

In this case, You have altered the known historical time line and moved "Fertile Crescent culture" (Sic!)
back to 10 000 B.C. in order to make your point about Lepenski Vir valid. This is pathetic. Check your facts first, then speak up. You have to learn a lot, start from here :

http://www.kathimitchell.com/ancivil.html#Mesopotamia:

(btw. there is no singe Fertile Crescent culture, the term is used to describe several cultures between the Nile and Euphrates and Tigris and none of them was highly developed "at around 10, 000 BC).

Also, has anyone told you that general English usage and Communist/Liberal lingo are not the same?

In plain English, being nationalist (ic) is a praise, not an insult like in Communist/Liberal lingo where it is used to label those who do not subscribe to Communist./LIberal ways of using lies and deception.


DejanOz DejanOz 03:19 27.09.2007

Re: 10 000 BC

Bob Petrovich:
DejanOz, I do not mind when somebody disagrees with me and use the factually correct arguments to prove his/her point.


Bill Clinton is no idol of mine, so you can go and sell that rape story elsewhere. Being a liberal doesn't make me a clintonite, the same way as being a conservative nationalist (some sort of which you probably are) doesn't make you a fascist. At least I would hope.

My facts are fine, thank you very much (Encyclopaedia Britannica: "[The] age-old belief that the earliest known culture originated in the Fertile Crescent has been confirmed by the development of radiocarbon dating since 1948." I do not know what are you trying to achieve with that "the civilisation started at Vinca" story, but I guess at least a Nobel prize would be in order for you. (If there were one for archaeology).

I wouldn't know much about communist lingo, and your confusion between communism and liberalism is so typical of the right fringe of specifically American politics. There is world outside of the US, believe me, and much of it would laugh aloud at your sign of equality between communism and liberalism. It is you who needs an education (and badly). For starters, have a look who's the ruling party in my country, Australia, and then come back to talk some more liberalism.

BTW, the label nationalist(ic) is very often used to attack the right wing policies (such as Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party in Australia, on a regular basis, as a matter of course and by the mainstream commentators). But I guess nothing outside of the US or Serbia is of any interest to you, is it?
darmar darmar 09:42 27.09.2007

Re: 10 000 BC

DejanOz
Bob Petrovich:
DejanOz, I do not mind when somebody disagrees with me and use the factually correct arguments to prove his/her point. Bill Clinton is no idol of mine, so you can go and sell that rape story elsewhere. Being a liberal doesn't make me a clintonite, the same way as being a conservative nationalist (some sort of which you probably are) doesn't make you a fascist. At least I would hope.My facts are fine, thank you very much (Encyclopaedia Britannica: "[The] age-old belief that the earliest known culture originated in the Fertile Crescent has been confirmed by the development of radiocarbon dating since 1948." I do not know what are you trying to achieve with that "the civilisation started at Vinca" story, but I guess at least a Nobel prize would be in order for you. (If there were one for archaeology).I wouldn't know much about communist lingo, and your confusion between communism and liberalism is so typical of the right fringe of specifically American politics. There is world outside of the US, believe me, and much of it would laugh aloud at your sign of equality between communism and liberalism. It is you who needs an education (and badly). For starters, have a look who's the ruling party in my country, Australia, and then come back to talk some more liberalism.BTW, the label nationalist(ic) is very often used to attack the right wing policies (such as Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party in Australia, on a regular basis, as a matter of course and by the mainstream commentators). But I guess nothing outside of the US or Serbia is of any interest to you, is it?

The matter here, in this post, was to make Serbia top 10 things which can be presented worldwide. Lepenski vir and Vinca are some of those, and THEY ARE some of the oldest prehistoric civilizations (and perhaps THE oldest in this part of World) and we should be proud of that. So, why you two guys are making such a big fuss over it?
DejanOz DejanOz 09:55 27.09.2007

Re: 10 000 BC

darmar
So, why you two guys are making such a big fuss over it?
Indeed, I apologise to the Vincan people if any are reading this blog. I guess BobPetrovich's number 10 in particular has got me fired up. Looking at it again, I was dead right to call it nationalistic paranoia.
vucko vucko 10:04 27.09.2007

Re: 10 000 BC

The matter here, in this post, was to make Serbia top 10 things which can be presented worldwide. Lepenski vir and Vinca are some of those, and THEY ARE some of the oldest prehistoric civilizations (and perhaps THE oldest in this part of World) and we should be proud of that.

I am, honestly, curious why would I be proud related to the fact that there were some people living in some regions that now belong to my country of origin? I mean - I can be equally proud because the sun raises every morning and rains fall occasionally...

(The two guys fight because they have surpluses of (negative) energy and, having in mind the anonymity of the media, they are careless about the consequences... at least that's my understanding of their behaviour)
DejanOz DejanOz 10:10 27.09.2007

Re: 10 000 BC

vucko
The two guys fight because they have surpluses of (negative) energy and, having in mind the anonymity of the media, they are careless about the consequences... at least that's my understanding of their behaviour

That's not true, at least in my case. I do care about the consequences - I would like the English-reading bloggers to agree with me, rather than the opponent. Now I am not so sure that I succeeded. Maybe the American liberals really do hate everything that Serbian culture, tradition and values stand for? What do you think, vucko?
Rosemary Bailey Brown Rosemary Bailey Brown 14:01 27.09.2007

Re: 10 000 BC

Speaking as an American, I can reply on two levels --

#1. American liberals don't hate anything whatsoever about Serbia because 98% or more of them NEVER or BARELY HEARD OF Serbia much less have a clue what its culture, tradition and values are. I'm still trying to figure what those things are, and it's probably gonna take at least a few more years of in-depth research for me to understand them completely (or perhaps that's impossible unless you're a Serb.) Anyway, American liberals are far too busy hating President Bush to have any energy left over for any other country. If you as a Serb are eager to have your country or culture hated, take a ticket and get in line ... it's going to take a long while for the world to get around to you.

#2. Lepenski Vir is worth a mention on anyone's Top 10 list. I don't care if it was first or tenth or 100th, it's still pretty darn cool. However, don't go telling external tourists about your Roman Ruins like that's a big attraction. Several Serbs have tried this on me, and hey, if outsiders are impressed by Roman ruins they'll go to Rome. My suggestion, pick something more unique to compete with.

That's what a top 10 is anyway, a type of competition in the world saying "Hey world, here is what is special about Serbia!"
vucko vucko 15:00 27.09.2007

Re: 10 000 BC

That's not true, at least in my case. I do care about the consequences - I would like the English-reading bloggers to agree with me, rather than the opponent. Now I am not so sure that I succeeded. Maybe the American liberals really do hate everything that Serbian culture, tradition and values stand for? What do you think, vucko?

Well that can be called caring for consequences, true - you want to "neutralise" "the enemy" in the hearts of the audience :)

They say that there are two types of people: the ones to classify people to two types - and the others. I'm afraid that people tend to make models too eagerly, including when it comes to politics. Few labels like "liberal", "nationalist", "conservative" etc are hardly enough to express own and other people's views and values. So it is sometimes fun to see the same people (e.g. yourself) being labelled both as nationalists and liberals by different correspondents.

We all probably have some demons we "fight against". It is way to easy to use this somewhat anonymous environment to "recognise" and "fight" with "the demons", without usual social consequences in the environments like our neighbourhoods or workplaces.

That's why it was funny to see how quickly Bob and you developed a wall of fire between yourselves. Your answer was short, using words like "raping", "nonsense", "nationalists' paranoia". Knowing you better, I understand that you addressed the misuse of the word "Liberal". But you sounded like Bob's "demon" and Bob sounded like your "demon", so you two lovingly made el abrazo of fight - spiralling further to misunderstanding :)

About your question - as Rosemary said - American liberals have much better objects of hate much closer to their hearts :)

Anyway - I'm very attracted to Rosemary's blogs because she is quite successful in eliciting interesting reactions from various standard visitors. She reminded me to Aleksa Žunjić, the spy from the famous play "A suspect" (Sumnjivo lice) from Branislav Nušić, giving business cards with his occupation, and then having his business flourish by people accusing each other fiercely. She says "Hi, I'm an American, I would like to know about your culture" and get to know many of us much better than she planned to - unless she has been doing this purposefully, which is probably even better fun :)

sheridan sheridan 15:27 27.09.2007

Re: Random ten

Bob Petrovich

1. A speciffic sense of humor. Feels like location shoot for Larry David, only funnier. Not to mention the slang expressions and curses and swearing being used to express the fondest of affection. (Also home of Yugo, but it was a bad joke)


As indy said, nothing charming about it. Besides not specific to Serbia in any way.

Bob Petrovich

2. Lepenski Vir and Vinca. Civilisation as we know it started from here.


I'll have to agree with DejanOz here, mostly because he is not spreading lies about it:)

Bob Petrovich

3. Medieval churches and monasteries. Renaissance before The Renaissance.


Right, as above, the churches and monasteries might be of some small interest to specialists (not that there is anything exactly amazing or revolutionary about them), but the comparisson with the Renaissance is so ridiculous that this probably belongs with the weird sense of humour above (were it not for the fact that simmilar lies were used to such a terribel effect over the past 15 or so years).

Bob Petrovich

4. Serbian spruce (Panciceva omorika). Will grow and grace the backyards anywhere.


OK, if you like that sort of thing.

Bob Petrovich

5. Kajmak. Can be imitated, never replicated. Don't even try.


Wrong. Not very good quality soft cheese in general (don't get me wrong I quite like it), and they make it elsewhere in balkans.

Bob Petrovich

6. Sljivovica. Serbian Sljivovica is the original. (Germans, Croatians, Bulgarians also make Slivowitz, but it is "'sencerest act of flattery"


This is interesting, I would honestly appreciate some pointers about this. E.g. does it really originate from serbia or is it monte negro or croatia? Are there any documents to that effect? etc I do agree though that is it considered a "national drink" and can be very good if properly prepared (a big fan me, though it is quite hard to come by really good stuff).

Bob Petrovich

7. Serbian Mastiff (SOP) .


I always thought this to be a joke (like dodz), shows my ignorance. Mind you, not a huge marketing point.

Bob Petrovich

8. Music. Waiting for a musicologist of Ry Cooder caliber to be rediscovered.


which one of many different styles do you mean? not that the production is any good, but there were some real good bands in the past, shame that they were always a minority. I do hope yo udo not refer to the stuff that is really popular.

Bob Petrovich

9. The only European country bombed by Nazi Germany, Allies and NATO on a Easter Sunday.


How is this a good thing?

Bob Petrovich

10. The Culture, the people and tradition Liberals love to hate with a passion of a biggot.


Ha ha, what a cheap cowardly shot, a sweeping statement that attampts to discredit any disagreement with your nationalistic list.



DejanOz DejanOz 15:45 27.09.2007

Re: 10 000 BC

Rosemary Bailey Brown
...pick something more unique to compete with....

I agree completely with your comments about American liberals and in hindsight shouldn't have reacted to that comment at all. Well, so much about that.

Something more to the point of your blog - I would suggest that insisting on something really unique about Serbia is a geographical and historical impossibility. Serbia had such bad luck to have been founded spot on the middle of the road. Exactly where everyone needs to thread to get from East to West and from North to South.

So, when you say "go to Rome to see Roman ruins", you are a bit mistaken - Serbia was in Rome (as in Roman Empire). As was in the Byzantine Empire. As was in the Ottoman Empire. As was in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. As was in the Russian Empire... errr... forget about the last one, OK? Now we are witnessing its futile struggle not to become a part of the American Empire... ;-)

It's the most inseparably mixed alloy imaginable of East and West, North and South. That's about the only thing unique about it.
Hromi Daba Hromi Daba 17:28 27.09.2007

Re: Random ten

sheridan:
"I'll have to agree with DejanOz here, mostly because he is not spreading lies about it:)"

Lepenski Vir is still a culture 10 000 years old. Every country in the world would make a big deal of thing like that.

"Right, as above, the churches and monasteries might be of some small interest to specialists (not that there is anything exactly amazing or revolutionary about them), but the comparisson with the Renaissance is so ridiculous that this probably belongs with the weird sense of humour above "

You are greatly mistaken and uniformed about it. Some of them are truly unique in a way they connect west and east - Studenica for example, which mixes fine stone works from southern Italia with monumental Byzantine cupola, or Gracanica, which achieved proportions of ideal multi -cupola structure of Byzantine architecture. Btw, it counts as one of the greatest architectural achievements in territories where Byzantine culture flourished. You would probably be right only if you considered Byzantine culture an insignificant blip of history. In that case, disergard my reply, please.
sheridan sheridan 18:08 27.09.2007

Re: Random ten

Hromi Daba
sheridan:
"I'll have to agree with DejanOz here, mostly because he is not spreading lies about it:)"

Lepenski Vir is still a culture 10 000 years old. Every country in the world would make a big deal of thing like that.


I am not denying that, I simply have a problem with a sentnence: "Civilisation as we know it started from here".
I tried to avoid delving deeper into that as it was already discussed at some length.

Hromi Daba

"Right, as above, the churches and monasteries might be of some small interest to specialists (not that there is anything exactly amazing or revolutionary about them), but the comparisson with the Renaissance is so ridiculous that this probably belongs with the weird sense of humour above "

You are greatly mistaken and uniformed about it. Some of them are truly unique in a way they connect west and east - Studenica for example, which mixes fine stone works from southern Italia with monumental Byzantine cupola, or Gracanica, which achieved proportions of ideal multi -cupola structure of Byzantine architecture. Btw, it counts as one of the greatest architectural achievements in territories where Byzantine culture flourished. You would probably be right only if you considered Byzantine culture an insignificant blip of history. In that case, disergard my reply, please.


Well, you are quite mistaken about how informed I am, but that is rather beside the point. The importance of renaissance is that it spread, fast and to great effect accross huge area, affecting science, literature, architecture, painting, drawing, sculpture, music etc introducing new technology and innovative techniques, breaking moulds and trasforming existing accepted norms and changing art and science everywhere. A minor localised architectural achievement with no major or lasting effect on any future developments in arts or science has nothing to do with that, and the two cannot be seriously compared.

As for their significance within Byzantine culture, it is arguable but is, you would I hope agree, something of a specialist subject (although again, their influence even there is hardly enormous - correct me if I am wrong here, but I do not know of any buildings that were made with intent to remind or immitate the grandness or beauty of these).

Please do note that I do not intend to argue their beauty and they should probably be some part of a video about the country, but grandiose claims putting Serbian monasteries on par with renaissance or claiming that Serbia is somehow uniquely endowed with a few old pretty buildings are simply wrong.
Hromi Daba Hromi Daba 18:51 27.09.2007

Re: Random ten

Best of those churches were built when Serbia *was* Byzant, (Constantinople had just been destroyed by misdirected crusade) and not long after that, the entire eastern Christianity collapsed, therefore, discussing their possible influence and importance on the world scale is beside the point. Still, that doesn't change the fact that Gracanica was a genuine attempt to revitalize and modernize classical Byzantine style of church building.

"claiming that Serbia is somehow uniquely endowed with a few old pretty buildings are simply wrong"

But, it is not - if nothing, combination of stiles of those buildings is unique, doesn't exist anywhere else in the world - and that's the point of this blog, isn't it? But, enough about old churches, after all it is just matter of taste – some people like to visit sites like that, some people don’t. I would be more interested to find out what do *you* like about Serbia and would recommend to your foreign friends.

Arhiva

   

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